Martha Nussbaum on #MeToo, Title IX and sexual assault

My guest on this episode is an intellectual giant, the philosopher and legal scholar Martha Nussbaum. Her work has been kaleidoscopic in scope, covering Greek and Roman philosophy, especially Aristotle, as well as liberalism, feminism, human rights, forgiveness, justice, the arts, the role of emotions and much, much more. 

Our conversation is mostly about her new book Citadels of Pride, which tackles the issues of sexual assault and harassment and how to create systems for what she calls forward-looking justice, rather than backward-looking revenge. It is a timely book, covering the controversial issue of Title IX which governs the treatment of assault and harassment claims on college campuses, as well as the strengths and limits of the #MeToo movement.

We also talk about the corruption of Division 1 college sports; the problems caused by the legal drinking age; why public shaming is a bad idea (and one that feminists especially should be especially wary of); and how the sin of pride lies at the heart of sexist views of women.

We discuss Martha's own experience of being assaulted in 1968 by Ralph Waite, the actor made famous for his role as the father in the The Waltons, her guilt at not naming him earlier, and how much progress has been made in law in the decades since. We also touch on her forthcoming work on animal rights.

Martha Nussbaum

Martha Nussbaum is a Professor of Law and Ethics at the University of Chicago working across the Law School, the Philosophy Department, the Classics Department, the Political Science Department, the Divinity School, as a member of the Committee on Southern Asian Studies, and as a Board Member of the Human Rights Program. She has numerous appointments and honorary degrees around the globe and is renowned for her work in Ancient Greek and Roman philosophy (especially Aristotle), feminist philosophy, political philosophy, philosophy of the arts, and animal rights. Most recently Martha was awarded the Holberg Prize which recognizes scholars for their work in the arts, humanities, social sciences, law, and/or theology. 

More Nussbaum 

• Read her new book “Citadels of Pride: Sexual Assault, Accountability, and Reconciliation” and her piece “Why Some Men Are Above the Law” in which she first draws attention to her own personal experience. 
• Watch her Holberg Lecture “Justice for Animals: Practical Progress through Philosophical Theory” on June 8, 2021. 
• Read Martha’s animal rights pieces, “Legal Protection for Whales” and “The Legal Status of Whales and Dolphins”, both co-authored with her daughter Rachel. 

Also mentioned

• Check out Jake Heggie’s opera “Dead Man Walking”, based on Sister Helen’s book of the same name 
• Read more about pride as a vice in Dante’s Purgatorio and the story of Emperor Trajan 
• In 1955, Mamie Till-Mobley told her son Emmett to not “look the white folks in the eye” before he travelled to Mississippi 
• Martha referenced Ishmael Reed’s book “Reckless Eyeballing”
• Read more about 
  • Pauli Murray 
  • Mechelle Vinson; and
  • Cheryl Araujo 
• Read Dan Harmon’s public apology to his coworker Megan Ganz 
• Martha referenced St. Paul in Romans 12:20 in which he said "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head" 
• Read the Parable of the Prodigal Son
• Check out this data sheet on D1 Football Sexual Assault Events 
• Read Obama’s “Dear Colleague” Letter and the changes that Secretary DeVos made 
• Visit the Friends of Animals website, where Martha’s daughter Rachel worked

The Dialogues Team

Creator: Richard Reeves

Research: Ashleigh Maciolek

Artwork: George Vaughan Thomas

Tech Support: Cameron Hauver-Reeves

Music: "Remember" by Bencoolen (thanks for the permission, guys!)